Vahan Hovsepyan - 18-05-2021 17:30:24
Hi everyone, I'm Vahan Hovsepyan from the RIPE NCC. This chat panel is meant for discussion ONLY. If you have questions for the speaker and you want the session chair to read it out, please write it in the Q&A window also stating your affiliation. Otherwise, you can ask questions using the microphone icon.
Please note that all chat transcripts will be archived and made available to the public on https://ripe82.ripe.net/.
Olaf Kolkman - 18-05-2021 17:34:06
I cannot follow this chat really - so please it is important to move any questions to the 'question tab' above
Vahan Hovsepyan - 18-05-2021 17:35:26
Yes, Q&A are under ? icon, so please direct your questions there.
Harry Cross - 18-05-2021 17:43:40
Very useful to hear some real experience of doing this
Rob Evans - 18-05-2021 17:44:15
"Vertrouwenspersoon" (or similar), don't ask me to pronounce that.
Ivan Beveridge - 18-05-2021 17:50:04
@rob: so more of a defined 'advocate' then I guess
Harry Cross - 18-05-2021 17:50:06
I note that Vesna says the role is "being on the side of the person who has complained" - what would happen if both sides complained at the same time?
Rob Evans - 18-05-2021 17:52:01
I was just writing a reply, but exactly what Vesna said... :-)
Farzaneh Badiei - 18-05-2021 17:52:07
so it's claim and counter claim?
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 17:53:55
@Harry & @Farzaneh, this is a corner case and it's quite rare, but it IS possible to deal with and the procedures & trainings do cover that - for CoC; for the Trusted Contacts it's different.
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 17:54:00
specific CoC-team training:
Harry Cross - 18-05-2021 17:54:28
Very interesting, thank you Vesna and Rob
Farzaneh Badiei - 18-05-2021 17:54:31
shouldn't the CoC team also have least violated the code of conduct to be on the team?
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 17:54:37
More trainings linked form here: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/diversity/2019-August/000395.html
Farzaneh Badiei - 18-05-2021 17:54:50
thank you Vesna
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 17:55:49
Here is one example from another community: https://wiki.techinc.nl/Dispute_Procedure
Farzaneh Badiei - 18-05-2021 17:57:27
yes Vesna, I think there are many good practices out there that can be followed
Harry Cross - 18-05-2021 18:01:22
Suggestion: some sort of anonymized "lessons learnt" published every so often, to reflect on incidents that have involved the CoC breaches, some sort of statement about what was done and what could be done better?
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:04:03
This is an example from another community: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1creBn296QQz7yTl1t_c7Oib4p3nlMoX2sEefoTuaKPs/edit
Desiree Miloshevic Evans - 18-05-2021 18:05:01
@Vesna - the doc does not appear to have shared access
Harry Cross - 18-05-2021 18:05:06
Vesna, that document is requiring me to ask for access
Desiree Miloshevic Evans - 18-05-2021 18:05:28
James Kennedy - 18-05-2021 18:06:45
Daniel +1 re: PDP does not apply for *any* RIPE doc
Sandra Murphy - 18-05-2021 18:07:39
CoC page says "procedural information will be covered in separate RIPE Documents." - are there already RIPE documents that cover the investigation/enforcement? which the CoC Team does not do, rightf?
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:07:45
@harry, thanks, i see... I'll upload a PDF example somewhere...
Brian Nisbet - 18-05-2021 18:09:34
Sandra, in short, no. That's what we're trying to develop.
Desiree Miloshevic Evans - 18-05-2021 18:12:50
I agree with Daniel's approach
Franziska Lichtblau - 18-05-2021 18:12:58
+1 to Daniel
Sandra Murphy - 18-05-2021 18:14:47
Hard to define this CoC Team without the knowledge of how investigation and enforcement occur? (Clueless here about the discussion and history here, so time to rtfm.)
Harry Cross - 18-05-2021 18:14:52
I think this will all require some trial and error, especially if RIPE has to move to documenting this to handle events on a longer scale
Farzaneh Badiei - 18-05-2021 18:15:08
I have some dispute resolution expertise and I recommend to always go with fair but lightweight procedural guidelines and work on the effectiveness. Cause ombuds and coc teams that are not effective ...won't remedy anything.
Brian Nisbet - 18-05-2021 18:15:21
Sandra, understandable, this is all input, but far from the only chance that people will have for input.
Franziska Lichtblau - 18-05-2021 18:16:09
I didnt understand daniel as "we need to keep everything as it is" - ah hes on the mic :)
Desiree Miloshevic Evans - 18-05-2021 18:17:22
do not overdevelop punishment system within the ripe
Desiree Miloshevic Evans - 18-05-2021 18:17:37
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:19:55
My examples of the processes, from other communities, , documented here: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/diversity/2021-May/000567.html
Brian Nisbet - 18-05-2021 18:22:00
Vesna, you sent that email to the divesity-tf mailing list, did you mean to send it to coc-tf or would you object to me forwarding it to there? Thanks.
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:22:45
Ah, Brian, I see -- please FWD it -- I am still focused on the broader diversity , inclusion & justice :)
Harry Cross - 18-05-2021 18:23:32
is coc-tf or diversity the best place to pick this up down the line?
Niall O'Reilly - 18-05-2021 18:24:02
I think Leo was suggesting RIPE-list
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:24:46
Jan, those are different tasks - but - I think that could be done with the same team.
Rumy Kanis - 18-05-2021 18:24:49
did you mean that the executive board would be the coc team?
Niall O'Reilly - 18-05-2021 18:24:52
@Harry: for authoritative statement, I think you should ask in Q&A
Brian Nisbet - 18-05-2021 18:24:59
Harry, coc-tf is the right list to send coc related emails, thanks.
Niall O'Reilly - 18-05-2021 18:25:14
Fergal Cunningham - 18-05-2021 18:25:59
Here is the CoC Jan is talking about with some other details about it... https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/eb-elections/code-of-conduct
Brian Nisbet - 18-05-2021 18:26:21
Vesna, I understand what you mean about the broader diversity, but just want to make sure this very useful stuff is in front of the right eyes. :)
Rumy Kanis - 18-05-2021 18:26:28
ah got it, thanks @Fergal
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:26:55
@Brian - yes, I get it - thanks for FWD-ing it, much obliged!
Brian Nisbet - 18-05-2021 18:27:04
All good! Thanks for sending!
Farzaneh Badiei - 18-05-2021 18:27:05
Board members are more powerful and they should be held to high standards and no one should be in fear of retribution when dealing with complaints against the board members.
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:27:58
Thank you all!
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:28:04
Mirjam Kühne - 18-05-2021 18:28:25
Many thanks to the TF members for organising this and also to Olaf for moderating this. Well done!
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:28:27
Niall O'Reilly - 18-05-2021 18:28:36
What Mirjam said
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:28:37
Franziska Lichtblau - 18-05-2021 18:28:39
Thank you folks! :)
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:28:44
Harry Cross - 18-05-2021 18:28:54
Thank you all
Denesh Bhabuta - 18-05-2021 18:28:57
Thank you all for your comments and questions. As Leo mentioned earlier, the coc-tf was here today in listening mode. Your comments and questions have been most helpful.
Daniel Karrenberg - 18-05-2021 18:28:57
Thanks to the task force - Really good and inclusive (sic) work!
Mirjam Kühne - 18-05-2021 18:29:14
And thanks for all the feedback. This was useful.
Vesna Manojlovic - 18-05-2021 18:29:33
Daniel Karrenberg - 18-05-2021 18:30:04
Angela Dall'Ara - 18-05-2021 18:30:06
Vahan Hovsepyan - 18-05-2021 18:30:06
This session has now ended. We will have now a closing break. Tomorrow we start at 10.00 with Welcome Coffee. More info on the RIPE 82 meeting plan: https://ripe82.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/. Thanks all for participation!
Denesh Bhabuta - 18-05-2021 18:30:14
Yes absolutely.. thank you Olaf.
Chris Buckridge - 18-05-2021 18:30:23
Harry Cross - 18-05-2021 18:30:27
Very productive day, thank you everyone!
Brian Nisbet - 18-05-2021 18:30:28
James Kennedy - 18-05-2021 18:30:28
Good work, thanks!